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Last.fm is not handling the feedback well, IMHO

 
    • Kerensky97 の発言...
    • モデレータ
    • 2008年 08月 8日 09:23
    THEKEKFACE said:
    poll is 86% for the old last FM    4 hours later in another thread.
    THEKEKFACE said:
    the running poll is just some thing spammed to the bring back the old last group so they could protest louder.    I totally agree; obviously the numbers are being inflated by a vocal minority.

    The most telling thing I think is how many of the people clamoring for change in the first week have by their own admission "Gotten used to it. And left the anti-new sites". Check the new "recent activity" feature on those groups and look at the people leaving, plus think how many people are like me and never look at or change their groups after they join.

    Plus all new users who didn't see the old one are coming in are raving about the site. To me this just further leads me to believe what I already knew. This was mainly just a visual change to the site. A few features left (other bugged out but are coming back), but many awesome, new, high demand features were added and overall most people including alot of the "anti new site" people agree that functionally the site is more kick ass than it was before.

    That is further born out by the number of people who are made happy as soon as they load the greasemonkey scripts that make the site look like the old one then spend their time enjoying the site.

    It just blows my mind that people can get so worked up about the internet that they threaten to leave because one box moved from one part of a page to another. The internet is a crazy place, we need to harness all this power for change to save people in Darfur or something important.

    All comments reflect the views of the poster and not of last.fm or it's management.

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    • slimserv3r の発言...
    • ユーザー
    • 2008年 08月 8日 10:13
    Kerensky97 The new site does suck. I visit the site much less after all the B.S. with the China Shoutbox which I mention 2 posts ago. And, with this really bad update to last.fm it is making it easy for me to stay away. According to alexa.com this site's traffic and page views are down. When better competition comes around a lot of users will be jumping ship. This site has "jumped the shark."

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    • の発言...
    • ユーザー
    • 2008年 08月 8日 10:16
    I still like the old one better, for the record. Sure, everybody is used to the change and isn't mad about it anymore, but that doesn't mean we actually like it anymore. Of course we aren't complaining anymore; we figured out that our complaints weren't going to lead to any site changes.

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  • Three weeks since my original post. Same site problems, same complaints from customers. Same snide and blatantly false responses from the moderators. Same lack of response from Staff. That's what this thread was originally about and it all remains true and unanswered by last.fm. Shameful, last.fm. Truly shameful.

    DJ ProFusion
    WorldFusionRadio.com
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  • Kerensky97 - Check the new "recent activity" feature on those groups and look at the people leaving,
    Calling your bluff:
    Recent Activity (Bring back the old Last.fm Group)
    * jgl_power joined this group. 12 minutes ago
    * Dandeliion_pl joined this group. 19 minutes ago
    * Xterminator333 left this group. 1 hour ago
    * plc_ratm joined this group. 1 hour ago
    * xNorbertx joined this group. 1 hour ago
    * efemeryczna joined this group. 2 hours ago
    * robotic_lunch joined this group. 2 hours ago
    * salimos joined this group. 2 hours ago
    * MysticalMeeting joined this group. 2 hours ago
    * askapaszczak joined this group. 2 hours ago

    Joined: 9. Left: 1.

    Your other claims about everyone "raving" about the new site are probably as inaccurate.

    DJ ProFusion
    WorldFusionRadio.com
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    • THEKEKFACE の発言...
    • ユーザー
    • 2008年 08月 8日 12:42
    it is true that the group is still growing at a rate of around 200 a week. and indeed NOT shrinking.

    They that gain power seek it!
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  • gwalla said:
    I never received any notification. Not one that left any kind of trace. No email, no PM, no nothing.
    And, as I already pointed out, that can hardly be blamed on Last.fm staff since you did not bother to access the site in the time it was plastered on every page on Last.fm.
    And three days is not a lot of warning. It even took some of the beta testers by surprise.
    I already agreed with you that notification should have been given more than three days in advance, so I'm at a loss as to why you've felt it necessary to repeat your stance as if I were arguing otherwise.

    I agree, there should have been more than three days advance warning. But Last.fm went to every conceivable length they could have to inform people who access the site on a regular basis that the site was going to change.

    WorldFusionRadio_com said:
    Three weeks since my original post. Same site problems, same complaints from customers. Same snide and blatantly false responses from the moderators. Same lack of response from Staff. That's what this thread was originally about and it all remains true and unanswered by last.fm. Shameful, last.fm. Truly shameful.
    One to three weeks since these stinging rebuttals to WorldFusionRadio_com's erroneous posts. Same lack of response from WorldFusionRadio_com to his critics. Same snide and blatantly false responses from WorldFusionRadio_com. That's what a debate on the Internet has always been about and it all remains true and unanswered by WorldFusionRadio_com. Shameful, WorldFusionRadio_com. Truly shameful.

    Ginfress said:
    WorldFusionRadio_com said:
    Two moderators have been childish jerks off-and-on since the new design rolled out. But then so have several others defending the new design. It has been a curious side effect that the people who claim to like the new site have been noticeably more abusive than those who dislike it.
    Your famous praised group comments (not from you but from the anti-group):

    "Jester-NL is a huge douche bag"

    I" will bitch and whine at you every time you say this.
    Unless you are by far the most retarded, numb-minded and imbecile team of coders on the planet, you have a back-up of the greatest site on earth"

    "whoever is willing to resubscribe is either brain-dead or has incredibly bad taste"

    "The Staff have done this whole thing from an Ivory Tower, no criticism of the Beta was even allowed during testing. We would just get used to it. We are just too unsophisticated to see the Emperor's New Clothes. Honestly, it would be time for the whole Staff there to take some Progressive Management courses,"

    Pro-site more abusive as non? I could have linked hundreds of quotes from that group which basicly show the immaturity of some of the members.

    praised Last.fm for not censoring comments and criticism - then one of the moderators censored that comment (beyond ironic). Other than that Last.fm have allowed people to have their say and I praise them for that. But the lack of meaningful response from Last.fm Staff has been disappointing. Not just little response in the forums but in not fixing the bug reports or implementing any suggestions. After many promises of "we are listening, we are fixing" what has actually been done? Yes, the forum reply window problem has been fixed (probably because Russ hated it :p).
    You're still complaining that moderators are following the rules which last.fm asked them to do. Yeah something a harsh post erupts and i don't blame any of them. The amount of abuse they get from you guys is unbelievable.

    I said this in a group:

    "Problem though is that being anonumous on the internet at times means: i couldn't care less what i say because nobody will know who i am anyway."

    Which of course goes for both sides.

    I know a lot of people have had a wait-and-see attitude about Last.fm's response, me included. They decided to give it a week or two and see how Last.fm responds to the customer feedback (including over 11,000 members in Bring Back the Old Last.fm). Can anyone say that those people who were willing to give Last.fm a chance have been rewarded for their patience?
    Let me tell you this. Yes you have an 11k group. Now remove all those new accounts expecially made to troll on these forums and to add a voilume in that group. Then remove all those who couldn't care less and are just there so they can flame away. After that you should have a group of people who can serious talk about the new last.fm. That group will never make an impression to anyone. People just have to read those forums and know it's just a big troll/flamefest.

    Besides that lies are being spread around on these forums about last.fm to discredit last.fm and boast your group's ego:

    Okay, with all due respect to Last.fm they do not have seven million users. Is that what they claim? Friend of mine in the marketing business says all corporations exaggerate their Web traffic by about ten times (print newspapers and magazines do it too). Let's say Last.fm has more like a million users total, which sounds about right given their stats. But a user count is all registered users and only a percentage of any site's users are regular visitors.Last.fm is unusual in that a percentage of users scrobble but don't often visit the Web site. I know more than a few people who check in once a week at most, they only use Last.fm for the scrobble stats. So how do you push advertising to users who scrobble but don't visit the site......?
    Which someone responded with (link :http://www.last.fm/forum/21713/_/436296/2

    Excellent job pulling facts out of nowhere. In terms of traffic, Alexa ranks Last.fm as 114 in the UK, 225 in the USA. Any way you cut it, that's a lot of traffic. (and by the way, it's 15 million active users)

    Also, as far as all the money going to the founders, you have to understand that the founders probably gave up quite a large percentage of the company to venture capitalists (Fidelity Ventures, Index Ventures, Joi Ito) before the purchase so that they would have the necessary resources to run the site, etc. The founders didn't walk away with nearly as much as I think you presume.

    If you're going to criticize and make insinuations, at least do some research first.
    Of course you never answered that back. If you guys want to really have impact, stop playing around like little kids and start getting serious.
    Cassandra-Leo said:
    The thread is alive and well. So much so some people are jealous :p Though still, the "new puppies" have nothing to say but " you are whiners" and playground name-calling.
    It's ironic that you dismiss everyone's arguments as boiling down to "You are whiners" out of hand without actually responding to any of them or, apparently, reading them. If you'd bothered to read people's posts, you'd have seen that they're accusing you of a lot more than whining - they've pointed out that a number of your arguments have little to no factual basis or substance to them, a rather more serious accusation which you have yet to disprove or even attempt to contradict. Ever hear of transference? You're engaging in it right now. You've been engaging in "playground name-calling" for almost this entire thread.

    I see the "new puppies'" guess of Last.fm users keeps going up - now it is 10 million - it was 7 million a few days ago. If you did any research at all you'd see the actual numbers are much, much lower.
    Actually no, they're apparently much, much higher; there are now apparently twenty-one million registered accounts on Last.fm. Moreover, dismissing people who like the new site as "new puppies" is precisely the kind of "playground name-calling" you deride above, and it's worth noting that I've been a member since mid-2005. Not exactly "new."

    CURRENT STATUS: ( 25 Jul 2008, 20:42 )
    16% NEW (372 Votes)
    84% OLD (1949 Votes)

    Each vote is a person, of course. That 84-16 spread has held steady for over a week. so it is a very good indication of customer sentiment. Still getting nearly 400 votes a day. It's been great that that thread has stayed free of trolls.
    Come now, you don't really mean to suggest that a poll in a group devoted to slagging off the new update, which has been noted as being filled with sockpuppets to boot, is an objective, scientific source of information, do you? Surely you must be joking.

    Also, it's funny that you accuse other people of trolling, since you're posting replies here without addressing anything anyone says to you. That, to me, is the textbook definition of a troll. Moreover, at least one person above has claimed your group is absolutely filled with trolls. I have to confess that I can't be arsed investigating; there's more than enough petulance here to tide me over.
    Ginfress said:
    WorldFusionRadio_com said:
    But why build on something that is already successful? Very good question. Because the new bosses at CBS doesn't want Last.fm to continue in the way it has been successful. They have their own plan and that means changing the site. You are right, they didn't build off the old site. Russ said it was a new site from the ground up. This was just the first step in the transformation of Last.fm; not just how it looks, not just how it functions, but what it is.
    As usual you state your opinion is an fact. So far in all these weeks you have nevr given any fact. Why? Because you can't proof it and even if you pickup statements they undermine your opinion (just one topic the amount of users of last.fm. You state it's less then a million yet business papers came up with 15 million people. Of course the person discovering another lie from you was never answered back

    The founders of Last.fm built a democratic community. They combined the audioscrobbler with a Web site that took advantage of the grassroots potential of the audioscrobbler to bring people together and connect their musical tastes creating an open and free user-based community. It was wonderful. The founders cashed out and who can blame them? They took the millions and handed the keys over to a media conglomerate. CBS now owns Last.fm. The problem, from a corporate perspective, is that that the original Last.fm approach is "bottom up" - it can't be controlled. The site's content comes from hundreds of thousands of users all over the world. Media corporations like CBS can't control that so they don't like that – not their mindset, doesn’t fit their business model. Hence, Phase 1 of the plan to recast Last.fm into a “top down” site. There is a reason the new site reminds people of other sites, corporate “top down” sites – not just how it looks, not just how it functions, but what it is being changed into.
    Last.fm was never democratic it always was going as a business. And again you fillup alot of lines with the usual opinion dribble.

    And some people are deluding themselves into thinking “oh, it’s still always going to be the old Last.fm, what are you whining about?” Ignorance is bliss.

    Another opinion you have. The new layout still has it's bugs. But wait....the old version was perfect. That's why about 300 pages of feedback was fillup with happy customers!

    Also Russ gave a pretty good explanation explaining the old build was coming at an end and they had to redo it.
    Babs_05 said:
    WorldFusionRadio_com said:
    johnli said:
    but you can and will get things changed if you offer constructive feedback. Look at the examples of staff dialogue with users all over the website -
    There's a higher number of examples of staff ignoring and even denigrating users all over the website. I do not wish to demonize the staff but the claims that they are saints is silly. The amount of constructive feedback that has gone unheeded, going back to the Beta testing feedback, has been massive.

    Like who? Which users? I've tried to keep up with who's saying what and the only one who has frustrated staff is you. But they still have the courtesy to speak up and tell you.

    So who are these users staff are ignoring?

    You're talking absolute codswallop if you think feedback has been ignored. God knows I wasn't very nice in my feedback but I'm seeing results. What on earth are you talking about? Again - examples?
    tvrk said:
    WorldFusionRadio_com said:
    A couple of times a staff member has all but admitted as much in the forum. I understand they are in a difficult position but on the other hand customers have a right to voice their opinion and the comments implying the opposite from the moderators has encouraged the trolls to come out, making a constructive conversation more difficult and ultimately giving staff an excuse to not engage with their customers.
    I call bullshit…

    They have addressed the CBS issue in several posts and I have seen your name in those debates so don’t say you didn’t see those…

    There are other reasons why they would choose to implement a new design/functionality change without all the pieces being in place – For one that it’s easier for them to implement new functions and other goodies – when You have a limited amount of developers[1] available You want to get the most of them, maintaining another site that’s on the way out would be idiotic. When You get in “this league” business partners and the like expect things from You, it might be a costly affair not to deliver when You said You would – if it turns out that You lose either important opportunities or, say, You and your merry men then the choice is pretty clear.

    [1] When you hit these kinds of traffic patterns and amounts, a lot less developers know what they are talking about.

    Breaking my own rule – I’m sorry…
    WorldFusionRadio_com said:
    Kerensky97 - Check the new "recent activity" feature on those groups and look at the people leaving,
    Calling your bluff:
    Recent Activity (Bring back the old Last.fm Group)
    * jgl_power joined this group. 12 minutes ago
    * Dandeliion_pl joined this group. 19 minutes ago
    * Xterminator333 left this group. 1 hour ago
    * plc_ratm joined this group. 1 hour ago
    * xNorbertx joined this group. 1 hour ago
    * efemeryczna joined this group. 2 hours ago
    * robotic_lunch joined this group. 2 hours ago
    * salimos joined this group. 2 hours ago
    * MysticalMeeting joined this group. 2 hours ago
    * askapaszczak joined this group. 2 hours ago

    Joined: 9. Left: 1.
    Obviously at the time Kerensky wrote that post, that wasn't the case. And I really don't see any reason for anyone to believe that these aren't just sockpuppets made explicitly for the purpose of "disproving" Kerensky's post, given your past history.

    Oh, and your website still looks like shit compared to any incarnation of last.fm.

    Fool’s Gold · FFOF · FFRepublic · The Lifestream
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    • gwalla の発言...
    • ユーザー
    • 2008年 08月 8日 14:22
    Cassandra-Leo said:
    gwalla said:
    I never received any notification. Not one that left any kind of trace. No email, no PM, no nothing.
    And, as I already pointed out, that can hardly be blamed on Last.fm staff since you did not bother to access the site in the time it was plastered on every page on Last.fm.    Didn't bother? I wasn't around! For just three freakin' days! Gimme a break!

    Plus, it's not like emails disappear without being deleted by the recipient. PMs too, for that matter. Hell, even if I'd missed it, if the announcement had been sent out as an email ahead of time I would have seen after the fact that they'd at least tried. As it was, I had no evidence that there had been any announcement.

    And three days is not a lot of warning. It even took some of the beta testers by surprise.
    I already agreed with you that notification should have been given more than three days in advance, so I'm at a loss as to why you've felt it necessary to repeat your stance as if I were arguing otherwise.    Because you're not the only other person in this thread.

    I agree, there should have been more than three days advance warning. But Last.fm went to every conceivable length they could have to inform people who access the site on a regular basis that the site was going to change.Email is inconceivable? I don't think that word...no, I won't go for the obvious Princess Bride reference.

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    • lyzzrd の発言...
    • ユーザー
    • 2008年 08月 8日 14:39
    slimserv3r said:
    Kerensky97 The new site does suck. I visit the site much less after all the B.S. with the China Shoutbox which I mention 2 posts ago. And, with this really bad update to last.fm it is making it easy for me to stay away. According to alexa.com this site's traffic and page views are down. When better competition comes around a lot of users will be jumping ship. This site has "jumped the shark."
    Or it could just be the season in which most people go on vacation, you know, during summer, when the weather's nice north of the equator. Evidence: digg's traffic is way down in July and August of this year as seen here, and reddit's also: http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/reddit.com.

    Metal is best when it's Unknown
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    • の発言...
    • ユーザー
    • 2008年 08月 8日 14:46

    Re:Last.fm is not handling the feedback well, IMHO

    The new site sucks. When I hit the back button Flash Player freaks. I can't play my own playlist. It's a chore to navigate. I hate everything about it. LOSE IT!

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    • の発言...
    • ユーザー
    • 2008年 08月 8日 15:22
    Only subscribers can listen to playlists as far i know.

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    • の発言...
    • ユーザー
    • 2008年 08月 8日 15:50
    I heard the reason the platlist doesn't work is because of the RIAA or something. So even with the crappy old layout it wouldn't work now.

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  • gwalla said:
    Didn't bother? I wasn't around! For just three freakin' days! Gimme a break!    I apologise for my semantic inaccuracy. Your not being around still isn't their fault, and I already agreed with you that there should have been more advance warning than three days.

    Plus, it's not like emails disappear without being deleted by the recipient. PMs too, for that matter. Hell, even if I'd missed it, if the announcement had been sent out as an email ahead of time I would have seen after the fact that they'd at least tried. As it was, I had no evidence that there had been any announcement.It feels like we're going in circles here. As has already been noted several times in this thread, the announcement was sent out as an email, and a rather large percentage of last.fm's userbase does seem to have gotten it. The logical conclusion is that your spam filter blocked it, which would not be Last.fm's fault either.

    Because you're not the only other person in this thread.Except that you did so in a direct response in a back-and-forth exchange that had gone on for, by that point, four posts. I found no other logical reading of your post in that context, and still do.

    Email is inconceivable? I don't think that word...no, I won't go for the obvious Princess Bride reference.See above.

    Darsa said:
    I heard the reason the platlist doesn't work is because of the RIAA or something. So even with the crappy old layout it wouldn't work now.    That's correct.

    lyzzrd said:
    slimserv3r said:
    The new site does suck. I visit the site much less after all the B.S. with the China Shoutbox which I mention 2 posts ago. And, with this really bad update to last.fm it is making it easy for me to stay away. According to alexa.com this site's traffic and page views are down. When better competition comes around a lot of users will be jumping ship. This site has "jumped the shark."
    Or it could just be the season in which most people go on vacation, you know, during summer, when the weather's nice north of the equator. Evidence: digg's traffic is way down in July and August of this year as seen here, and reddit's also: http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/reddit.com.
    Not to mention that site traffic always peaks immediately after an update, and levels off after people get used to the new features.

    Last.fm is in no immediate danger from any competition; creating a site with anywhere near the functionality would take months, if not years.

    Fool’s Gold · FFOF · FFRepublic · The Lifestream
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    • の発言...
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    • 2008年 08月 8日 19:50
    I absolutely agree, it's not a matter of "getting used to the new design". The old one was clearly better looking & more functional. I think last.fm appeals to a different set of people than facebook, why make it look like a stupid social networking site for yuppee wannabes?

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    • enlill の発言...
    • ユーザー
    • 2008年 08月 8日 20:27
    @WorldFusionRadio_com, we are still waiting for you to show us how easy it is to make site that will please everyone.

    The old one was clearly better looking & more functional.
    For you (and some other people). Now for me (and some other people) it's totally the opposite. People really, I can't understand how hard it is to understand the relativity of everything related to people. I mean everyone of us has an oppinion ... people often have very much opposite oppinions. Why the hell some people try to prove so much to others that "their oppinion must be better cause 13k other people thinks similar". Tell me how in case of subjetive feelings about the looks of usage of sth 13k can possibily be more important than 300. The whole difference between those 13k and 300 is that those 300 don't mind the oppinion of 13k but are annoyed that 13k tries to force their oppinion only because they are more (and being 100% objective this 13k vs 300 is of people who voiced their oppinion while you are ignoring totally all people who didn't and they are in the end more important than all those who did voice the oppinion ... last time I checked 13k to 1.5 million is rather small number)

    Only because someone is loud doesn't mean he is right ...

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    • marinfieraru の発言...
    • ユーザー
    • 2008年 08月 8日 21:05
    Yannis30 said:
    I absolutely agree, it's not a matter of "getting used to the new design". The old one was clearly better looking & more functional. I think last.fm appeals to a different set of people than facebook, why make it look like a stupid social networking site for yuppee wannabes?
    Given the truckloads of young people on facebook, looking around last.fm I see many many kids indulging their passion for all sorts of identity marking musical styles, and social networking in quite similar ways. Seems like a huge overlap in audience and purpose to me, if obviously more focused on musical discussion.

    Perversely, given the nature of the new last.fm's design, which indeed does make it look more like certain other web2.0 sites, if anything last.fm is now less social networking friendly, with useful interactive features such as the Shoutbox, friends and neighbours, all now placed away from center view. So while the look seems to disturb you because of its association with facebook, in actual fact last.fm is now less like facebook in functionality than before.

    Quite frankly I don't think the old design was more functional, or for that matter even good looking. I joined last.fm despite its old fashioned graphical feel, and its confusing layout. While I don't think the new design is fantastic either, to me it is an improvement in most respects, and its cleaned up look is actually aesthetically more pleasing (if still only average and definitely derivative).

    Functionality is still at times mystifying as to why things are where they are, with clear categorization problems in the information as well as visual flow, but again its no worse than before, and in my opinion is a slight improvement on the previous site. I certainly can't summon up much hate for the redesign, as what I mainly used the site for previously has been enhanced - the live charts and library are clearly better in functionality, and features like the weekly charts, which were a bit of a joke with their constant lateness, are rightly deemphasized.

    The most distressing thing in the redesign was it going live clearly before it was ready - far too many things missing, or not working, for it to appear fully professional sorry to say. In this respect functionality was clearly reduced, but buried in the firestorm of disapproval you could actually glean the reasons for this, and that the staff were still working on things. Whether they could actually sort through the forums to work out what was needed to be done (beyond bring back everything as it was exactly before) is another matter.

    Anyway that's an opinion from one of the previously silent millions - one who kept well away from the petulant behaviour on show, although it was definitely gruesomely fascinating to watch from a distance...

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    • enlill の発言...
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    • 2008年 08月 8日 21:31
    marinfieraru, I couldn't possibily add anything to what you have written :) In other words, I totally agree.

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    • の発言...
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    • 2008年 08月 8日 21:39
    Yannis30 said:
    I absolutely agree, it's not a matter of "getting used to the new design". The old one was clearly better looking & more functional. I think last.fm appeals to a different set of people than facebook, why make it look like a stupid social networking site for yuppee wannabes?

    Last.fm has ALWAYS been a social site, only aimed at people who love music. "The SOCIAL music revolution". Marinfieru pointed out why it didn't turn to a complete social site. Well, it feels more like one, but a social site for music fans and it's not bad.

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  • Is this still going on? oh my god.


    I'm going to say one frickin' thing: 1.5m people didn't voice their opinion, so they LIKE it. Or they won't bother to reply because they DON'T care. So don't think you're a majority.

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    • enlill の発言...
    • ユーザー
    • 2008年 08月 9日 00:05
    ImmortalAthon pisze:
    I'm going to say one frickin' thing: 1.5m people didn't voice their opinion, so they LIKE it. Or they won't bother to reply because they DON'T care. So don't think you're a majority.
    Well ... it doesn't mean they like it tho it's probable.

    I mean being totally realistic. Imagine you are person who never used last.fm forums cause they are here for music mainly (I would say it's the majority of last.fm users). Now let's assume 3 most significant oppinion about new layout coming from that person.
    (1)He doesn't like it
    His favourite site has changed. He might feel his world got violated. He is somehow angry about it. He comes on forums to express his anger or disapointment. Now depending on how deep the emotion is he either ends but simply stating his oppinion or keep digging the topic cause he feels soo bad.

    (2)He doesn't care
    He has some oppinion about the site but he doesn't find it significant enough to bother expressing it. Or maybe he just doesn't like forums. Or whatever other reason people decide not to express their oppinion.

    (3)He likes the site
    Oh, something has changed. Let's see how it works... Oh, it's ok - let's go back to what I was doing before.

    Now the reason for some people to actually express that they like the site is around those 2 possibilities (note: I don't reject other possibilities but these 2 seems most possible)
    - (3.a)they were on the forums before and simply take part in normal forum life expressing their oppinion
    - (3.b)came here annoyed by sth (since they like the new layout it wasn't it which caused them to come ... what possible could that be? ... for those less bright ... spam of the "Bring back the lol" group - YES PEOPLE, YOU ARE ANNOYING for other last.fm users ... you cry your oppinion is not respected but in the same time you don't respect people who don't wanna know your oppinion)

    Note: (4) people who were on forum before and didn't like the new layout

    Now let's do the maths:
    Bring back the old Last.FM = (1)+(4) ~ 13k+
    Keep the new last.fm = (3.a)+(3.b) ~ 300+
    The rest of last.fm users = 1.5m - 13k - 300 ~ 1.4m = (2)+(3)

    I do admit that this is some kind of generalization since I don't have all exact data. There might be also some more specific groups of last.fm users but their number statistically might be not so significant and isn't required for proving how arrogand or stupid people who use 13k as an argument are.

    パーマリンク  引用

  • it is the thread that that never ends, it goes on and on my friends....

    it is unfair to assume that because someone has not commented on this thread, that they enjoy the new last.fm. I do not like it. at all. yes, I preferred the last version. yes, I would be thrilled if they gave us an option to switch to a classic view.

    no, I am not going to stop using the site if they do not. no, I do not like the way the staff/mods are handling this.

    see, not all of us are being quiet because we like it.

    パーマリンク  引用
    • gwalla の発言...
    • ユーザー
    • 2008年 08月 9日 01:00
    ImmortalAthon said:
    I'm going to say one frickin' thing: 1.5m people didn't voice their opinion, so they LIKE it. Or they won't bother to reply because they DON'T care.    Or they don't like it but they don't want to jump into a flamewar.

    Or they don't like it, but instead of getting angry they just resigned themselves to it.

    Or they don't like it but they don't think posting is going to do any good.

    Trying to guess the opinions of people who haven't expressed any is futile.

    パーマリンク  引用
    • enlill の発言...
    • ユーザー
    • 2008年 08月 9日 01:04
    gwalla pisze:
    ImmortalAthon said:
    I'm going to say one frickin' thing: 1.5m people didn't voice their opinion, so they LIKE it. Or they won't bother to reply because they DON'T care.    Or they don't like it but they don't want to jump into a flamewar.

    Or they don't like it, but instead of getting angry they just resigned themselves to it.

    Or they don't like it but they don't think posting is going to do any good.

    Trying to guess the opinions of people who haven't expressed any is futile.
    All in all, noone can take any numbers to support their oppinion since as long as that 1.5m doesn't speak noone knows what they think. I don't claim they like it or not since obviously I don't know it. But I do think that people who use the 13k group as argument are being ignorant and have no idea about statistics. 13k angry people is nothing more than 13k angry people in 1.5m crowd.

    If I would like to join the new layout haters retorics, I could say that because atm that group stopped on those 13k and my group started growing more than it did last week, my groups oppinion is more valid than their group's oppinion.

    パーマリンク  引用
    • rawkergirl の発言...
    • ユーザー
    • 2008年 08月 9日 01:53
    *sigh* I don't care about the look of the site. I don't care about supposed "selling out". I don't even care about the "paint it black" option.

    I just want to be able to listen to my playlists again. :'(
    (It now says that I have to be a subscriber to listen to my playlists where before I could listen to them anytime)

    パーマリンク  引用
    • gwalla の発言...
    • ユーザー
    • 2008年 08月 9日 01:56
    enlill said:
    All in all, noone can take any numbers to support their oppinion since as long as that 1.5m doesn't speak noone knows what they think. I don't claim they like it or not since obviously I don't know it. But I do think that people who use the 13k group as argument are being ignorant and have no idea about statistics. 13k angry people is nothing more than 13k angry people in 1.5m crowd.    I think the whole argument over how many people are in that group, how many of them are "serious", and whether it's a "sufficient" number of people is an irrelevant distraction from the actual problems.

    I'd also like to point out that, while I'm one of the more vocal anti-beta users on this forum, I'm not a member of that group and never have been.

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